Just in time for Valentine's Day, a little love for the Old North State from professional grumper Tony Bourdain: The March issue of Budget Travel isn't online yet, but Eater.com reports that Bourdain makes the call on five food rivalries: Mexico City vs. L.A. for tacos (Mexico City), New York vs. Chicago for pizza (New York), L.A. vs. New York for burgers (L.A., because of In-N-Out), Chicago vs. New York for hot dogs (Chicago).
And finally, in the most important contest of all: Kansas City vs. North Carolina for barbecue.
And the winner (grab a couple of bottles of Texas Pete and drum them on the table):
North Carolina. "It's so minimalist - dressed with only a little bit of vinegar, salt and pepper. It's hard to argue with that."
Hard to argue, indeed. Thanks, Mr. Bourdain, sir. Drop in anytime.
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96 comments:
...nuff said...
Eastern NC-style.
Or nothing, thank you.
I've never been to KC but I've been to Texas and a lot of people say its similar to KC. Given that I gotta go with KC. I've been here 5 years and I've tried NC style. As a result I do most of my BBQ eatin' at Big Bob Gibsons. The menu for NC BBQ is very limited.
P.S. The only thing Bourdain got right is NY pizza.
It should have been specified (by him, assuming he didn't specify) that it is Eastern NC 'cue. Wonder what he'd think of Lexington/Western NC 'cue, which is quite a different variety.
Anon. 1:06, your comment is fair enough, because we all have different tastes. I haven't tried KC style either, but have had TX brisket 'cue a number of times, and I have enjoyed that. But comparing NC barbecue to TX or KC is kind of apples-and-oranges, because NC classic barbecue is pork, and TX/KC is beef.
Vinegar, salt, pepper. That's Eastern right there. Which means he isn't talking about Charlotte.
Charlotte needs to get over this whole idea that they're relevant to the BBQ argument. What is served here is "smoked pork which you pour sauce over", not barbeque.
I grew up in Fayetteville and was SHOCKED at what they passed off as BBQ here when I first arrived in 1990. Like a previous poster so accurately said: "smoked pork with sauce poured over it"; That's not NC BBQ!
Eastern Style means just that,"eastern N.C." I agree with the folks who pointed out that that is not what you find here in Charlotte. There's some good BBQ here but head to Pitt County, N.C. for the real deal
It's ALL good
Eastern NC has no flavor. I'm from GA where we like some sort of BBQ sauce on our BBQ.
Anon. 1:33, sauces are fine as long as they don't smother the flavor of the meat, etc. You can add as much sauce as you want to a plate of eastern barbeque; a lot of folks like that "minimalist" taste. Just a matter of personal tastes.
Folks, I love debate and discussion. But please, let's keep the language polite.
My Rankings, not that they really matters:
Kansas City
Tennessee (Memphis)
Texas
North Carolina
I love Bourdain... but New York over Chicago in pizza???? WHATTTTTTTT!
Bourdain may have come down on one side or the other, but I think he'd be the first to say don't limit yourself. Texas, NC, Kansas City, even an outpost like western Kentucky (try the mutton barbecue some time) all offer great food. Why proclaim one is the best when you can spend a lifetime trying decide for yourself?
No one should besmirch an entire cuisine or style based on a poor presentation of it. That would be like a Bulgarian eating a hamburger at Sonic and proclaiming that all American burgers stink.
I've got a crazy idea. Find what you like, and eat it. Or even better, learn how to make what you like yourself and you'll gain knowledge and appreciation for what it takes to make any style of BBQ. Life is short, eat good BBQ where you can find it.
This from a guy who eats BBQ with chop sticks? LMAO
eastern NC is all there is...specifically, Kings BBQ on hwy 70 in Kinston. period. end of discussion
Bubba's does a reasonable imitation of Eastern NC. I happen to love the Lexington 'cue with the extra kick in the dip. I do want to visit KC one day and check out their internal debate (Gates vs Bryant). But like someone said, it's not really a fair comparison since ours is pork and theirs is beef. And yes, Western KY is quite underrated. Of everything I've tried, I like Lexington the best.
All thoe of you who are demonizing "Charlotte BBQ" - just stay far away from Sonny's. There are a number of decent 'cue joints here, and many make the fatal error of going into a Sonny's expecting to get BBQ. As my Lexington-native wife likes to say, "Don't eat at Sonny's. It tastes like the table."
Eastern NC, specifically The Hut in Fayetteville's my favorite. The author, I'm sure meant Eastern NC since only mentioned vinegar with no mention of tomatos. Notice that Lexington? no tomatos.
This Bourdain clown comes across as ill-mannered scum and I for one couldn't care less what he thinks of our food or anybody else's.
Lexington BBQ....with red slaw, hush puppies, and a sweet tea...
Tomato based Texas BBQ... It may be pork or beef but either way it is "Mmmmmmm good", as Andy would say.
The key is BBQ which is tender, lean and chopped somewhat finely but that still has enough texture to hold onto the natural moisture created by the whole process.
Nothing is worse than dry BBQ that tastes like a pine tree. LOL!
I am a Kansas City Son that moved to the Carolinas. I have tried the best that KC and Carolina can offer and in my humble opinion, Carolina BBQ is a distant...distant second. Don't get me wrong, I like the Carolina version for sure but there is a science to it and KC has it down pat.
KC BBQ is by far the best. I live in the Carolinas and for sure Carolina BBQ is very good but it is not in the same league in general as KC BBQ.
I am the only one that think that picking a winner in regional styles is stupid? KC vs. Texas vs. NC Barbaque are really all different, I personally prefer the fatty burnt parts of any of them (burnt ends in texas), but I like them all for what they are.
The Chicago vs. NY Pizza thing always kills me. A Chicago Deep Dish or stuffed pizza is more of a casserole (think bready lasagne) than a NY slice. They are totally different, at home I make both styles and like them both.
I like 'cue from pretty much any place in the Southeast as long as its a hole in the wall, with weird hours of operation that only the locals understand, and a location that yankees driving through on their way to Florida won't be able to find. Eastern, Lexington, Mustard based...whatever, as long as it meets the above criteria it'll be good
So he likes eastern BBQ. There's no accounting for taste.
I like that there have already been 2 shout outs for Western KY bbq and only 1 for Western TN bbq. (I'm from KY) I moved to Charlotte to get away from all of THAT bickering. Memphis is dry rub pork and beef ribs and Owensboro KY is bbq mutton and KY Burgoo. They're all great foods. You're allowed to like apples AND oranges, aren't you? I've had Texas brisket before - it's great! Where I come from, I was taught how to tell the difference at the butcher's between a "slop fed" hog and a "corn fed" hog. I keep hearing about Eastern NC and Western NC bbq - shoulder/butt vs. whole hog. If you folks think you can tell the difference - that's swell. I feel we're all blessed to be able to eat enough bbq to the point that we've all become experts. Let's keep supporting our local restaurants that make our favorite BBQ and put the crooks like the fast food chains who want to make us all obese and dead out of business.
I grew up in Morganton (western NC) and have lived in Raleigh for more than 20 years. I travel all of NC for my work, so I've had BBQ from north/south/east/west. I prefer the western-style better as long as there is not too much sauce. Eastern is OK as long as it is not dripping in vinegar. For a good "intermediate" BBQ that does not lean too heavy either way, try Jimmy's BBQ right off I-85 in Lexington.
you guys are crazy. NC bbq is awful
The BEST bbq is when the meat has been slow cooked, remains juicy and soaks in all of the flavor from the spices, smoke and the fat. The BEST bbq can be enjoyed without sauce (vinegar, mustard, brown sugar or tomato). The BEST bbq should leave a smile on your face when you're done.
And with that said, I've had exactly this in NC, SC, LA, GA, MS, TX, TN, AR, AL, FL and believe it or not, South Africa. Although they don't call is BBQ down there and they used lamb.
memphis is the best
plus tunica is next door for full gambling
BBQ in NC is a noun meaning P.I.G.= Hog. NC ribs really don't compare to St. Louis ribs, Memphis, or KC ribs. However, for pure smoked goodness, chopped and pulled pork from B's in Greenville is about as good as it gets. Their chicken is outstanding along with the sides. The key is good smoke, good pork, and very limited amount of skin with just enough sauce to moisten it. There's always more sauce that can be added. I did my undergraduate work in Memphis and in the 70's you could get great BBQ all over the city. The Rendevous was great but it has been touristed to death.
Colletta's out east for the BBQ pizza was to die for. You haven't lived until you were a college student washing clothes at Lobes and walking next door to Lobes BBQ. Bourdain can take his snobby self promoting opinion and mob some sauce. Egomaniac.
Chicago pizza is not pizza.
It's all a matter of preference, and in many cases, what you were brought up eating.
For me... Bridges (Red) in Cleveland County NC is what I was brought up eating. But I'm a die-hard Eastern NC BBQ fan, hands down.
And then of course, if you're an Eastern NC BBQ fan, there's also the Brunswick Stew, and Cracklin' Cornbread.
I have to agree with Bourdain in every category except hot dogs. I can't imagine anything from the mid west tasting good. I might even challenge the taco competition. LA has some superb tacos. But NY pizza is the best, In-N-Out burgers can't be beat LA has that down pat, so good (I'm drooling) and NC BBQ (specifically eastern NC) is unmatched any day of the week by those so called tomato based BBQ's.
season salt, crushed red pepper, pepper, garlic powder, and apple cider vinegar. Now thats Eastern NC BBQ. This stuff down here in GA is a joke. Like smoked meat and store brought BBQ sauce.
Only thing wrong with this is, Bourdain! ! ! ! ! !
If you're ever out that way, General MacArthur's in Laurinburg, NC has some excellent eastern NC BBQ. Gotta put in a plug for my hometown.
2 cups cider vinegar
3 tablespoons ketchup
2 tablespoons paprika
2 tablespoons brown sugar
4 teaspoons kosher salt
1 tablespoon hot sauce
1 to 2 teaspoons cayenne pepper
1 to 2 teaspoons ground black pepper
Mix in non-reactive bowl until sugar and salt dissolve. Add pepper as needed. Store in sterile jar and refrigerate. Keeps for several months.Baste meat frequently while slow cooking.
Enjoy!!
BBQ needs to be by category. In my opinion, there is no where that matches Memphis (specifically Rendezous and Corkey's for babyback ribs), NC (or SC if you want to introduce another element) may have the edge in chopped pork BBQ and TX is clearly the lead in beef brisket. That being said most good BBQ places are at least OK outside their specialty. Overall, the Salt Lick outside Austin TX is Mecca to hard core BBQ lovers as they have brisket, ribs, sausage, etc all cooked over an open smoke pit. Only place that 2 different Food Network chefs picked as their "best of" in the BBQ selection show.
I would have to go with Memphis barbeque! I am partial since I grew up there. All in all, I like ANY barbeque if it is good!
I don't understand why no one mentions Spoon's("We cook the whoole hog!) in Charlotte.
I accidently bit my finger off one time while eating eastern NC BBQ and never noticed the difference in taste. "Must be all the vinegar!"
I am from Wilson County - we know how to "grow" a pig! I really don't know why you would cover the taste of pork totally - it is good with just salt and pepper - and even better with vinegar and red pepper....BUT I love pork anyway you cook it!
I was raised on Parker's BBQ but Bill's will bring an 18-wheeler to Charlotte - they've been to California!
I am from the Kansas City area and think the best thing about KC bbq is the beans. But don't let Ollie Gates fool you into thinking he has given out the recipe for Gates baked beans, that was just a cute little diversion tactic of his. Well-seasoned ovens play such a huge part of it. That is why no matter how good a pizza you might somehow find in Charlotte, it will never be the same as any Mom&Pop in tbe NE. Use all the tricks you want, but that oven was put in yesterday, not 50 some-odd years ago.
As correctly put above, Bs BBQ in Greenville is the place to get a true NC "smoked" not gas fired bbq. You really don't need to add sauce to it as it is so juicy and complete.
And the chicken is great!
SC BBQ
Pardon my ignorance, but what's a "grumper"?
If he'd gone to Sonny's, he woulda gagged. Never had any "bbq" any nastier or just a plain ol' pretender to bein' real bbq. But, never heard of "Charlotte" style bbq either, so um, what IS that??
Going to Sonny's to get barbecue is like going to Olive Garden to get Italian or McDonald's to get a burger. If your only experience with barbecue is at a chain or a yuppified well-lit restaurant on the south side, you ain't had real NC BBQ.
Eastern NC BBQ is the best... ANYDAY!!!
I'm with Anthony. I want to eat BBQ, not drink sauce. Sauce is like gravy on a roast, it covers burnt meat real good.
There really is only one criteria for good BBQ, it must be cooked over a wood fire (charcoal briquets are OK, too).
That throws Jimmy's in Lexington out of the mix, Mac's Speedshop too.
You don't have to go too far to get good 'cue here. Here's my short list for local: Jim 'n Nick's in Steel Creek (yes it is a chain, but it is true to the original from Birmingham, AL). Old Hickory House (scary location on N. Tryon, but sitting under the hornets' nest with a combo plate of pork and beef - sauce on the side - is a fun adventure). Windsor Pine in Albermarle is worth the trek. It's only an hour from CLT to Lexington if you want to try Lexington #1 (Monk's), but I don't care for the vinegar slaw. Got a child at UNC, then you must go to Allen & Sons on Hwy 86 N -- my favorite in the state. Lastly, many proclaim B's in Greenville to be nirvana. It is just OK, and the chicken is fall off the bone tender; but, note that they cook over Kingsford charcoal and that flavor permeates the food and not in an entirely good way, either. Get there before 1PM if you want to eat there as they often sell out of food by 2PM. Try Parker's in Greenville for a cleaner experience and tasty cue.
If business or pleasure takes you to Raleigh, don't miss an upscale BBQ experience at The Pit.
For my palate, the further west you travel in NC, the BBQ loses itself in a thick tomato sauce, and that line starts west of Gastonia. Which reminds me, Ray's Country Smokehouse is worthy of a trip to Gastonia.
We are lucky to have so many places in NC devoted to the pig.
After another visit to Jim 'n Nick's today, where I ate their pulled pork, I have to recant my recommendation as a good representation of NC BBQ. It isn't. Their ribs are good, so is the chicken, and the pulled pork is fine; but, they like to overwhelm the meat with a thick sauce. The sides are wonderfully prepared, as are their pies.
I like this place, but it isn't NC BBQ. Neither is that riverside place in Asheville that Obama visited. If the Obamas go to Bridge they still will have missed the best NC has to offer. Go north Michelle!
Ah yes... But did Bourdain list a NC Que joint on his list of top 10? No. did he list a KC Que joint on his list? Yes. He did. KC Que is the best.
BBQ is great, even if it isn't the best BBQ.
That being said, Bourdain seems to be somewhat confused.
He seems to side with NC over KC, however there is no mention of NC in his "13 places to eat before you die" while a KC BBQ place IS on that list.
He may have chosen NC over KC, but which place has a joint in the "13 places to eat before you die?" I like a good pulled pork, but we've got brisket and baby backs.
How many NC bbq joints on B's top list. None, I think. This is silly as everybody and many on the food shows know KC BBQ cannot be equaled. Oklahoma Joe's is best known - ask anybody who likes or better loves bbq. If you have not tried it, don't say another word until you do. Then voice what is best.
interesting that there are no NC BBQ joints on his 13 places to eat before you die but he does list the best BBQ in all of KC and possibly the world.....Oklahoma Joe's. KC BBQ is the best! :)
@J-if you ever make it to K.C. don't go to Bryant's or Gates. That's for tourists. Go to Oklahoma Joe's....it's where the locals go and is inside of a gas station. Gates has the best beans but for ribs, it's Joe's and ask for them dry. Sauce is on the table and you can add as much as you want but the meat is to DIE for. I thank my lucky stars that my son's school is only a few blocks away. It's also on the list of Bourdain's top 13 places to eat before you die.
That is fine and dandy but a KC bbq joint made it on his list of top places to eat before you die. None in NC made the list.
Just Sayin'.
I've lived/eaten in KC and lived/eaten in Charlotte, and KC has the better BBQ hands down. Whether it's smoking technique, sauce or they way it's served I never had a bad plate of "Q" in Kansas City. They have some of the best BBQ places in the world on every corner and Oklahoma Joe's! Vinegar made be simpler, but give me a condiment that is really going to enhance the flavor of the meat!
Bourdain is out of his mind.
Then why isn't there a NC barbecue joint listed on Bourdain's "13 Places to Eat Before You Die"??? There is, however, a KC Barbecue joint listed, but no NC joint listed..... I have tried all the different regions of barbecue, and I LOVE KC the best! I live in Ohio where there is nothing and when they opened a barbecue joint in our town by a local, it was a HUGE let down. We now go to KC every summer, load up on sauce, barbecue, and the sights. Mostly, the barbecue. Oklahoma Joes is usually our first stop in KC!
I will join the list and remind everyone that Oklahoma Joe's in KC made the Bourdain list of places to eat before you die; not a list of BBQ joints, a list of best restaurants on Earth. His exact words were, "It's the best BBQ in KC, which means in the world." Fact check!
As has been mentioned, only one BBQ place is on Bourdain's "13 places to eat before you die," and it ain't in North Carolina. So while Bourdain may "really like" NC, he LOVES Oklahoma Joe's in KC.
If Bourdain likes NC BBQ so well where is NC BBQ in his "Places you must eat before you die"? http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
KC is in there! No NC.
In case you need proof, here is Bourdain's article:
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
However like most on here, if BBQ is good, its good no matter where you lay your head at night.
hahaha!
ohhh, you haven't lived (and Bourdain says you shouldn't DIE) until you've eaten the best BBQ in the world...and that is Oklahoma Joe's in Kanasas City. Served out of a gas station...no kidding.
I get to die happy in KC. I live a block from OkJoes. Just like in basketbal, Kansas does it best.
Bourdain has a list of the 13 places you must eat before you die. It is funny because Oklahoma Joe's of KC made that list. I am not aware of any Carolina BBQ that did.
I'm from south america and I have been living in KC since 1999 and there is only one place where I go to eat THE BEST BBQ I have ever tasted. OK Joe's is my own favorite and the best BBQ place in Kansas City. And i'm a big fan also of mr. bourdain. I love his shows.
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
Here he said KC BBQ is the best in the world.
So why did bourdain call Oklahoma Joes in Kansas city "the best barbecue in the world" in his men's health article? Sorry NC.
I didn't know if you saw this...
Anthony Bourdain's: 13 Places to Eat Before You Die
1) St. John (London)
2) elBulli (Girona, Spain)
3) The French Laundry (Napa Valley, California)
4 Per Se (New York City)
5) Sin Huat Eating House (Singapore)
6) Le Bernardin (New York City)
7) Salumi (Seattle)
8) Russ & Daughters (New York City)
9) Katz's Delicatessen (New York City)
10) Etxebarri (Axpe, Spain)
11) Sukiyabashi Jiro (Tokyo)
12) Hot Doug's (Chicago)
13) Oklahoma Joe's Barbecue (Kansas City, Kansas)
Sooo, where is NC BBQ? I don't see it... Oklahoma Joe's is the best!!
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
Bourdain clearly chooses KC "BBQ" over that "stuff" you guys have in NC by placing the best BBQ joint known to man on his ultimate list. That same list includes zero NC stuff joints. Another great example of unchecked and unsourced opinion being passed off as fact. Bravo! FOX is hiring...
But there are no NC barbecue joints on Bourdain's list of "13 Places to Eat Before You Die". But there is a KC barbecue joint on the list. Vinegar Sauce is stupid and pointless and just plain tastes bad! Try a dry rub from KC and add any of the tasty thick sauces for a real treat!!!
But there are no NC barbecue joints on Bourdain's list of "13 Places to Eat Before You Die". But there is a KC barbecue joint on the list. NC BBQ is watery, too much vinegar, who puts slaw on good BBQ--you hiding the taste? Come to KC and get a dry slab and put on your own flavorful, thick and awesome sauce at the table! same with burnt ends or a sandwich (with a side of slaw on top of it)!
Hey, do any commenters know if Bourdain listed a KC barbecue place as one of his "13 Places to Eat Before You Die?"
@Ted, Yes I do believe he listed Oklahoma Joe's on his list of 13 places to eat before you die. Despite it's name, it is KC BBQ through and through.
The only place to fill both tanks in one stop...
ttp://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
The Big question is.... Has Ms. Purvis even tried OK Joes??? How can you talk about it if you have not tried it??
Anonymous 1:20, I love Kansas City barbecue and have written about how much I love it. Don't shoot the messenger: I reported what Bourdain declared, not my own opinion.
Oklahoma Joe's of Kansas City,Kansas is on Bourdain's list of 13 places to eat before you die. I have to agree it's good stuff and KC bbq is pork
I wonder what the catch is for Bourdain. I seem to recall a certain KC BBQ joint on his list of places to eat before you die, but I can't recall any Carolina joints on that list.
13) Oklahoma Joe's Barbecue (Kansas City, Kansas) People may disagree on who has the best BBQ. Here, the brisket (particularly the burnt ends), pulled pork, and ribs are all of a quality that meet the high standards even of Kansas City natives. It's the best BBQ in Kansas City, which makes it the best BBQ in the world. Anthony Bourdain is the host of the Travel Channel's No Reservations.
I believe Mr. Bourdain got it right the first time when he listed Oklahoma Joe's in Kansas City as one of the 13 places to eat before you die.
Also, Oklahoma Joe's is the only BBQ restaurant in the 2011 Zagat top 3 restaurants in all of Kansas City.
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
I believe Mr. Bourdain got it right the first time when he listed Oklahoma Joe's in Kansas City as one of the 13 places to eat before you die.
Also, Oklahoma Joe's is the only BBQ restaurant in the 2011 Zagat top 3 restaurants in all of Kansas City.
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
I believe Mr. Bourdain got it right the first time when he listed Oklahoma Joe's in Kansas City as one of the 13 places to eat before you die.
Also, Oklahoma Joe's is the only BBQ restaurant in the 2011 Zagat top 3 restaurants in all of Kansas City.
http://www.menshealth.com/bestfoods/food_features/13_Places_to_Eat_Before_You_Die.php
That's why I have Carolina BBQ as one of my 13 Places to Eat Before You Die, Kathleen. Oh wait...
and yet...there are no NC bbqs listed on Chef's list of must eat locations...KC does have one such establishment on the list...call it apple polishing on his part...We know that the best bbq is Texas bbq...named for its Northern neighbor...located in Kansas (By God) City...
Thanks, Tony, I kind of got that impression. Just goes to show that we both have plenty of love to spare for all kinds of barbecue. I'm nonpartisan: I love any kind of barbecue as long as it's well-prepared by people who respect the art.
Nice try North Carolina. 13 Places to Eat before you Die by A. Bourdain---hmmmmm, don't see NC anyplace... Ohhhhhh, I DID see Oklahoma Joe's BBQ joint in Kansas City. Ummmmm, yes, we are the BBQ capital of the universe and OKIE JOE's is the sun! :-)
Coming from Texas, we really were disappointed in Kansas City BBQ. Then, we found Oklahoma Joe's. It is very good---probably the best in KC.
However, Texas BBQ is the best, hands down.
PS- Bourdain hates nachos. WTF?
The list is ridiculous. And if you take it seriously, so are you. Come on people, BBQ from JAPAN, LONDON, and NYC? REALLY? Yeah right. Obviously he doesn't know BBQ. BBQ is a southern product only done right by Southerners. Including SC, NC, TN, even Texas. Anything above the mason dixon line is just trying and in my book just disgusting. REAL BBQ is down south. Don't hate, just appreciate.
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